Feedback invited on catering and amenity offer on South Kensington Campus
January 11, 2012by Amna Siddiq
Feasibility study reviewing space on Level 0 Sherfield Building including Holland Club
Staff and students are invited to offer input to a feasibility study, which will consider how the space on Level 0 at the western end of the Sherfield Building could be optimised to provide social facilities and amenities to members of the Imperial College community.
Portfolio Review Board (PRB) took this decision in order to address a growing concern over our ability to deliver a good experience on campus for all staff and students. Alongside outstanding facilities for academic activities, the College aims to provide high-quality services and social spaces to meet the needs of the community, for example common rooms and catering outlets. On the South Kensington Campus, these have reached saturation point. In 2010-11, the College provided catering services to a footfall of 2.5 million and was still unable to meet demand. Student feedback has also highlighted that taught postgraduates would welcome more appropriate common room provision on campus.
The feasibility study will explore how the space on Level 0 of Sherfield could be used to help address the issues above. The study will include a review of the space currently occupied by the Holland Club, which has a floor area comparable to that of the Senior Common Room, and will consider:
- what additional catering and amenities would best serve the needs of staff and students on the South Kensington Campus;
- whether any new facilities should be open to all members of the community or to just a segment;
- how the ethos of the Holland Club might be maintained within any new facilities.
The feasibility study will be led by the Director of Commercial Services, Jane Neary, working with Building Projects.
To offer input, please email catering.projects@imperial.ac.uk or post a comment below.
The Portfolio Review Board will review the results in Q2 2012 and determine next steps for the project.
It is a sad day that staff and PGs who are the lifeblood of IC, will no longer have a place to socialise and feel welcome. As a long term member of college, and active member of college community I have not met a single person in favour of this, yet still it pushes forward.
Perhaps one of the unintended effects will be that alumni, who have always been welcome at the HC, will no longer meet on college premises — as they do now.
Once again, Imperial will steam roll ahead and destroy a beloved institution. If IC want alumni to donate, they should be trying to foster a sense of community — not destroying it where it exists.
This is the only place where staff can socialise. If the catering areas at Imperial are full, and taught postgraduates can’t socialise, the solution is obvious. Cap the number of taught postgraduates.
The Holland Club must stay! It’s a great institution within a greater institution. Many a good discussion over coffee has been had.
I like the holland club right now. It’s a good place to relax and chat informally about either the weather, or about research. I think the best, most creative research happens when people can gather in relaxed environments and have natural conversations. There is nowhere else like the holland club within walking distance, let alone on college premises. It is absolutely invaluable, and should be preserved.
I’ve rarely made personal use of the Holland bar in more than 25 years working at Imperial, but I appreciate its value. It is ‘the worker’s’ own space. It is about the only place on the SoughKen campus which provides the opportunity to just ‘be’ rather than ‘be doing’. It doesn’t make money directly for College. It doesn’t directly affect our league tables or REF scores. But, indirectly, it does.
It is the staff club- albeit for those below the salt rather than above- that helps people relax, that helps build loyalty and, through that, build committment to College . Our academic and financial sucess rests on this foundation of commiment from staff at all levels in the organisation.. And, if the Holland club is a bit shabby, so what. From other responses to this blog, it appears to be part of its attraction.
We’ve plenty of outlets in College. If there is a need for more capacity, then let this be met through more efficient use of the existing outlets rather than through predetary growth. Greater efficiency will also hhelp increase prifit if that is another, undeclared driver for the proposal.
I am deeply disappointed at the lack of information (none) being communiated to us on potential changes with the Holland Club. I would hope that there will be more input from postgraduate students on the issue before a final decision is made.
A re-post that I think summarises the feelings over 70% of the college community, that is the 70% not part of the high command.
“Let’s put a bit of meat on the story so far. This isn’t simply a catering takeover of the existing space. Commercial (not support, not student, but “Commercial”) Services have commissioned a feasibility study into converting the premises into a 100 cover restaurant, bar, 24 hour coffee shop, internet cafe and TV lounge. The study is costing a not insignificant five figure sum. If it goes ahead they will [urinate] nearly £4 million of taxpayers’ money up the wall. The reasoning behind this: “to enhance the student experience ” especially in relation to postgraduates. They will tell you that focus groups and surveys have asked for this sort of provision and they are responding to demand. Of course most people will respond to leading questions like “do you want a 24 hour cafe” by ticking the yes box while never having the slightest intention of ever wanting a watery latte in South Kensington at 3:30 AM on a Wednesday morning.
But this is disingenuous to say the least. How would they ever make that sort of money back selling school dinners to students? And they’ve got all the facilities to do this as it is. The MDH (Queen’s Tower Rooms to you) opens for two hours a day 30 weeks a year and stands unused most of the rest of the time. Eastside, the library and the Union sell food outside lunchtime. The Library can open its cafe 24 hours if the demand really is there. The real reason is to provide somewhere to hide all those troublesome, non-profitable staff and students during the conference season, and rake in huge amounts of cash renting out the SCR, JCR and MDH as exhibition space and for feeding expense account delegates. A purely commercial service.”
Lifted directly from the H-club wall and I couldn’t say it better myself.
I agree the outlets are at saturation point. I always have to go at around 1230 for lunch at the SCR as if you go later hardly any food is available! It seems that catering prefer to not to risk having food unsold than offering a full range. I can not see how its justifiable to build more catering outlets when the current ones are not used efficiently. The only reason this looks a sensible option for catering is they don’t pay space charge like every other activtiy in college (teaching/research etc) have too!
Also social meeting places are saturated too! Everyone knows how difficult it is to find a seat in the Holland club in the evening! I go to the Holland Club with friends to relax in the evening, and not the expensive pubs around IC. I go with friends to the cheap catering available on Gloucester Road instead of the expensive food available at IC. Something should change but not the good stuff!!!
I agree with most of the comments here.
Southside was demolished, regardless of the fact it was highly regarded by staff and students, replaced instead with a eastside, which in my opinion has no character whatsoever and food I wouldn’t eat at any pub. The SCR was also refurbished and yet the portions are smaller every year, price increases and the “new” carpet looks like it came from the 70′s. The union bar has had to be refurbished several times before it resembled something decent. Not a great track record for doing things in the best interest of your staff.
If you want to serve food (please not college catering) at the Holland Bar I don’t think people will mind, it may be a nice addition, with a little more ventilation, but close it down and then you might as well just knock down the Queens Tower as well.
Please don’t close the Holland club. It is one of the few things left in imperial with character. It would be a huge loss to the post-grads as well as staff!
As regards not having enough places to get food, I disagree. I use either JCR, SCR, library or the SAF cafe on a daily basis and have never experienced issues with getting food or excessive queuing. In fact during summer months these places can be very quite.
I can just agree with what has been posted here. It would be a great shame if the Holland Club was turned into yet another catering outlet that served the same food as SAF, the library cafe, chemistry cafe etc. I never had to go hungry on campus due to the lack of food outlets, the frustrating thing is that all these outlets serve the same food and offer the atmosphere of a hospital canteen. The Holland Club is the only bar for postgraduate students and staff at Imperial College. It is a sanctuary for many of us after a long day or week in the lab or the office.
I looked up the numbers and found out that there are approximately 5000 postgrad students and 6000 staff at Imperial, this is a total of 11.000 people, and we have only one bar to go to, and now this is supposed to be turned into another catering outlet for food nobody wants?
I really hope that the College and the rector do the right thing for the students here and not for catering, so they can make a bit more profit. After all this is a University and not a shopping mall.
Save the Holland Club!
As a regular customer of the Holland I would like to express my dismay at the news that it has been earmarked for development into yet another catering outlet. The Holland club is a haven from such places and I would be bitterly disappointed to see it turn into just another bland outlet for selling the same old sandwiches to students. The Holland club has a unique atmosphere and is an oasis for those who wish to get away from exactly the sort of “common room” provision which is being proposed. Put simply, there is nowhere else like it available to staff and postgraduate students on campus.
I note that the Queens tower rooms are empty for the majority of the day. Surely this space was redeveloped to meet precisely the needs outlined in the proposed development of the Holland Club? I fail to see the logic behind changing the Holland club into another such place.
With regards to catering, I refuse to believe that there are insufficient outlets across the South Kensington Campus to meet demand. Exactly how is this “demand” calculated? Are people going home hungry as they’ve been unable to secure a tuna baguette?
Let’s keep the Holland as it is. A place for adults to go for a drink and a chat in a conducive atmosphere. It isn’t broken and does not need fixing.
It would be a massive mistake to change Holland Club in yet another cafe. It provides the right atmosophere where staff loves to meet after work to discuss work, collaborations, meet with students, and yes, just relax in a friendly, cozy environment. This is the only place that offers this within College and thus is of paramount importance for creativity to be stimulated.
1. If the “catering services” stocked their cafes properly then demand would actually be met efficiently. I’ve seen managers stacking shelves of unwanted sandwiches, at 10 in the morning, while the other members struggle to run one just of the two tills… how does this make sense?
2. Outlying cafes are actually closed during times of student break – what is the point of opening yet another, when they claim demand is so low, cafes have to be shut….??
3. Commercial Services claim they have “award-winning chefs”.. where are they exactly? Who has a “breakfast pastie”? Not even the Cornish I’ll bet- we don’t need any more of this..
4. You’d think that since the libray is opened almost always 24/7 that the cafe (and surrounding cafe area) would be a better place to launch this plan.
The Holland club supplies a place to relax that does not exist anywhere else, if this is a ruse to force people to go to Eastside or to the Union, you think these areas would first be improved so people would want to go there instead of being forced Just becuase Commercial Services can blow their budgets in (and book half of) Eastside on their Friday evenings, doesn’t mean others can afford/or want to do so!
When Southside was closed down, more than 50% of Imperial staff and students signed a petition to save it. According to a recent academic staff meeting, its loss is still regarded as a very significant failure of the College (which Eastside has not addressed) and a major cause of the poor performance of the College in the recent National Student Survey.
The proposed loss (or transfer to catering) of the Holland Club is an abject failure to learn this lesson. While catering could and should be offered at the Holland Club (as indeed it used to be), particularly during the lunch period, the independence and character of the Holland Club are an essential part of the life of the College, promoting a unique environment for technical and academic staff, together with postgraduate students, to build good social working relationships within research groups that are an invaluable part of academic life. Imperial is first and foremost a university, not a catering outlet.
The H-Club, already provides a “high-quality service” and is an established “social space” for a very defined audience and active part of IC’s community. As this is listed as the College’s aim, why try to fix something that ain’t broke?!
Where else can staff and postgrads go to network, have a meeting, grab some lunch or just socialise with their peers outside of their own departments and work areas? It’s a unique venue, steeped in tradition. Leave our heritage alone.
Vik Paw, Alumni and former member of staff ICU and Holland Club.
Holland Club is unique to Imperial College and the demand of if far outweigh the demand of yet another catering facility. Please leave Holland Club as it is.
Please leave the Holland Club as it is!
This is just an awful, awful idea. To take something that measn so much to so many people. I dont’ think that a rethink isn required, simply abandonning this farce of an idea is much more desirable. Anything that can be done, will be done to keep this place going!!!
The Holland Club is an important place for many people. Aside from just helping make Imperial College a nice to place to work, many ideas and new collaborations have come from banter had in the Holland Club. Creative and innovative thinking requires us having informal relaxed spaces like the Holland Club on our campus.
When I arrived in London as an expatriate, I did not know anyone here either
personally or professionally. Luckily, my colleagues took me to the
Holland Club and there, sharing more than lab work, we built up real and
durable relationships. It was there, waiting at the bar, that I met most
of my current Londoner friends. It was there, around a drink, that I
exchanged crazy ideas and started new collaborations.
It was there, that I simply met new people, from other groups, other
departments, other fields. People who I would have never known otherwise
and who today make my life better.The Holland Club gathers people – and
according to my criteria, it is much more synonymous of well-being at
Imperial College than any anonymous catering facility.
Quite simply, without the Holland Club, I don’t think I’d have made it through my PhD. It would be a terrible shame to lose such an integral part of the postgraduate student experience.
If you’re a postgrad, postdoc or lecturer on campus then the Holland club already provides the best use of space possible. And that should always be a university’s priority – providing the best experience for their students and staff, not thinking of the next best way to make a cheap buck.
Hang your heads in shame Imperial College Catering. Get your own house in order before moving in on other peoples.
The Holland Club combines a unique atmosphere with affordable prices, making it a popular venue with academics and technical staff alike. It stands out admist the numerous expensive and commercially-oriented catering outlets that we see everywhere else on campus. Please keep the Holland Club free.
Firstly, I think the main point is that the Holland Club is currently used by a considerable number of people; if the Holland Club was sat empty every evening, I could see that a review of its function would be sensible. However, the Holland Club is used, and loved, by numerous staff members and postgraduate students, who value the chance to have a venue which is entirely for their own use, and is a relaxed and social environment. The indicators of a successful venue is not flashy lights and modern seating, it is the service provided and the atmosphere which are more important, both of which the Holland Club provides in abundance. I would far rather go for a drink in the Holland Club than to Eastside, where there is not enough seating for customers just wanting to go for a drink, where the atmosphere is limited and which does no longer provides the standard of food and service it did when it first opened.
My second point is that the reasoning behind the feasibility study seems to be an assumption is that every person who works and studies on campus wants to eat on campus. This is certainly not the case. One of the attractions of the South Kensington campus is that there are various eating establishments nearby, to suit even a student budget. We are not a campus situated in the middle of the countryside with no alternative venues nearby. Imperial College does not therefore need to provide every person on campus with lunch – as a staff member, I often prefer to get away from campus at lunchtime to eat, and having an additional eating outlet on campus would not make me more likely to eat here. Even when I do eat on campus, I have never experienced a lack of food or excessive queues – no more than would be expected anywhere at the peak hour of lunch time. Whilst I recognise that there is of course a need to provide eating establishments on site, I honestly do not see that there is a need for any additional venues.
I believe the Holland Club is a really important part of the college’s rich heritage and is something that the College should be proud of. Rather than providing another eating establishment, similar to those already on campus, the College should recognise the Holland Club as a valuable asset, which allows staff and postgraduate students their own space to socialise, and which has a unique and much loved identity. I for one am proud to see how both current and past staff and students have rallied together to support Kevin and the Holland Club, demonstrating the high esteem we have for it.
Many thanks,
The number of eating establishments on the South Kensington Campus is more than enough to cater for the student population! With the exception of Eastide (which has quite frankly declined in terms of quality of food and service) there is very little alternative for staff and PG students to go where there is a relaxed atmosphere, reasonably priced drinks and get service from a bar staff team who are always polite and professional and therefore, make going to the Holland Club an enjoyable experience. I can see absolutely no benefit in turning the Holland Club into yet another venue where the same type of drinks and food will be sold, when we already have several outlets selling the exact same thing!! The Holland Club is an asset to the College. It should not be viewed as a place which has no use and therefore an easy target! I am wholeheartedly in favour that it should remain!!
When I arrived at Imperial in October, I was gobsmacked by the number of catering outlets everywhere. Initially impressive, I soon learned that they were pretty identical, selling the same things. I have no desire to see more of this. I do use the outlets regularly and have never found it hard to buy lunch. They do often run out of sandwiches but I think restocking shelves woould be a better use of resources than converting the Holland Club to yet another catering outlet, selling the same stuff, running out of the same sandwiches.
The Eastside and Union bars are both incredibly commercialised, bringing no sense of warmth or cohesion to Imperial. The Holland Club, however, is quite the opposite. It is a welcoming place with character and much warmth with a unique sense of identity, creating a sense of belonging for all who visit it. I cannot see how another commercial cafe will contribute positively to the ethos of Imperial.
It would be a great shame to change the Holland Club. It’s a fantastic facility for postgraduates and staff. There’s no where else like it where you can go for a drink at the end of the day with your group, form friendships and exchange ideas and meet others who work at the college. It’s also a great place to take visitors – recently a collaborator from industry couldn’t believe it when we told him of the college’s proposal.
It’s outrageous that catering claim that they are unable to meet demand. Everyday half of the sandwich cabinets are empty by 12:30. If you’ve got unfulfilled demand, then why not restock your shelves throughout the day (like any other retail business) rather than destroy parts of the college loved by staff and students. Changing the Holland Club would be an insult to staff and students – the very people who make Imperial the successful university it is.
Really not a fan of this idea at all. When it comes to catering at Imperial, the only shortage of which to speak is of competition and variety. Having independently run food and drink establishments on campus helps to deal with this. Please don’t tip the balance any further the wrong way.
Since starting at Imperial only last October, I have found two things. One, that I am always able to buy a sandwich or hot food whenever I might want to on campus, and two, that the Holland Club has provided a fantastic venue to easily mix with fellow PGs and staff. The decent priced drinks, pleasantly shabby decor and friendly atmosphere make it feel like somewhere I’ve come to have a drink for years. It is clear when in there, that this affection for the place is shared by everyone. A few extra drinks to choose from, a dab of paint, and a rethink of the layout are all that is needed to improve an evening there, without compromising the club’s independence and character. Considering the recent move to offer cheap tea, coffee and hot chocolate, it seems that the Holland Club’s management are well equipped to respond to demands being made by those who use it.
Perhaps in the day bar snacks and coffee could be served, but the idea of having yet another outlet, where all I can buy is the same choice of overpriced sandwiches as anywhere else on campus, is not appealing. In my opinion, the high level of profiteering from staff and student refreshments is what is at ‘saturation point’. I concur with earlier comments, that the SCR could be far more space efficient, and that the need for an actual figure of floor size comparison is needed to support such a claim. We don’t want to be crammed in there against each other but it certainly isn’t well thought out (although saying that, I’ve never had to wait more than a minute or two for a seat). There is also vastly underused space at SAF and several other outlets. Surely delivering a good experience on campus for all staff and students is through there being a range of facilities available across the campus that are considered good, rather than a series of underused clones. It is pointless considering additional facilities and amenities, when at a fraction of the cost, the current ones could be fully optimised.
How the ethos of the Holland Club might be maintained within any new facilities is not difficult. It is a place that is used and enjoyed almost exactly as it is, for a purpose that is catered for nowhere else on campus.
I have been a PhD student at Imperial since 2008, and I have always viewed the Holland Club as a welcoming and accessible place to wind down at the end of a long day in the lab. Despite the presence of other bars on campus, they are more geared towards social drinking for undergraduates and hence are not relaxing places to spend social time for postgraduate students and staff.
If the Holland Club were closed, it would have a detrimental effect on the enjoyment of Imperial by a significant proportion of its corpus. The college is not just for the undergraduates! For those who work here all year round, a new catering outlet, which will lie dormant for half the year, is not what is needed. In fact, I would argue for more facilities to be accessible outside of term-time!
Just got the staff briefing which talks about the feasibility study and asks for comments to be sent to catering.projects@imperial.ac.uk but does not suggest commenting on this blog.
The good thing about this blog is that it is open to all to read, as well as comment and as of yet I don’t know of any way of knowing how many people have commented by email and what their opinions are.
If people want to make a comment without it being in the public domain then that’s fine. As long as they know that this bog exists as an alternative
In my view, the Holland Club presents a vital space for staff and postgraduates to relax, socialise and even occasionally get some work done. It would be a crying shame to lose this for more College catering space. It’s a refreshingly different place compared to the rest of the College’s facilities. Please leave it be.
I think that the Holland Club should remain as a post graduate and staff bar and requires no improvement to the facilities what so ever (apart from a lick of paint). The Holland Club has been a great place to socialise for post graduates and staff for many years (40 in my case) and I believe it should remain.
The thought of the catering department getting their hands on it is unthinkable. Look what a dismal substitute the Eastside Bar is, supposedly replacing the highly popular Southside Bar but failing completely.
Also catering insist on stocking poor quality sandwiches inferior to the basic ranges provided by most supermarkets.
No leave the Holland Club as a seperate entity.
Please leave the Holland Club as it is, we do not need any more catering facilities.
I know it’s been said already, but the catering services offered is most of the college are terrible, a real victim of profit margins. Not only is the food terrible, but there isn’t even any diversity across the outlets, which could add something special to each venue. As Nick says above, every one is just ‘watery coffee, short-dated petrol station sandwiches and stale, soggy baguettes’ (I will add ‘with too much mayonnaise’). With the relative isolation of the SK campus, catering services already have such a monopoly, capitalising on people’s sheer laziness. What ever happened to healthy competition leading to better quality?
From what I see, the Holland Club itself would benefit from some minor improvements, such as daytime catering options. But I do not see it being as underused as is suggested by these proposals. In addition it is so valued by staff and PGs as a social space away from students and public visitors, where collaborations, connections and friendships are formed. It would be shame to be so insensitive to the requirements of these staff for the sake of another sterile, failing social experiment.
No hostile takeovers of HC please.
The Holland Club is one of the most charming staff facilities that Imperial has, and part of its charm is that it adds diversity to the options available to staff — diversity that is a direct consequence of the fact that it is not a Commercial Services outlet. It offers an experience, atmosphere and ethos that is completely different and complementary to other outlets in College. What better example to “meet the needs of the community”? To lose it in favour of another CS catering facility would be a real step in the wrong direction.
Just wanted to add my vote for keeping Holland as a staff & postgraduate bar. I don’t see the point of removing a unique facility and replacing it with “more of the same”. It provides a more civilised atmosphere where postgraduates and staff can relax and interact with each other, without the raucous associated with undergraduate venues.
If catering facilities are saturated (something I have not experienced myself), maybe staggered lunchtimes for different faculties could help.
I thought I would share my thoughts regarding the feasibility study. While it is a noble aim that the College should strive to “ high provide quality services” such as “catering outlets”, is not the case that this is already well severed via The Beit Quad, the Library Cafe, Eastside Bar, the JCR, the SCR, The Queens Tower Restaurant, the Business School Cafe, the Chemistry Cafe, the Electrical Engineering Cafe, Essential Convenience store, the Royal Schools of Mines Cafe ect (forgive me if I have left any out!), and that if Imperial is still unable to meet “demand” it should look to manage these outlets more efficiently.
Also with regards to not meeting catering demand, how is this assessed?, Have there been a series of complaints from students and staff about having to go home hungry because they were not able to purchase a latte and croissant, or have students been fainting in exams directly because of a lack of Fairtrade Soy Free Chocolate on sale? One may also be bold enough to suggest that while it is Imperial’s responsibility to feed the minds of students, it’s the student responsibility to feed themselves, after all if the students feel that are not well served by the catering options they will go elsewhere.
With regards the Holland Club, it all ready provides a social space in which Staff and PG students alike can meet, converse and interact in a social environmental, these areas in the College are few and far between. It would be a tragic loss to the community of Imperial College if the pursuit of pure commercial interests were to wash away such communal hub. It would be better to empower (both financially and practically) those who run the Holland Club establishment to improve and enhance the experience for Students and staff, as they are at the front line of customer service and are better attuned to understand their customers’ needs
My first memory of the Holland club was 33 years ago, on the first Friday after starting my apprenticeship. My apprentice tutor took me to the Holland club to buy me a beer and to sign me up as a member. (Unlike these days! Which means if you have a CID number then you are automatically a member? Much more convenient) joining the Holland club was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Financially! Probably made less sense than joining the pension scheme, but I can honestly say I have made more friends and have had more good times there, than any other place I care to mention.
Ok then. leaving the nostalgia behind. I really can’t believe the college is contemplating throwing away 60 years of history, to produce yet another second rate canteen!
I could go in to a rant about the lack of quality and the pricing of the existing catering, but I don’t want to waste my time repeating exactly the same thing as every other person, who has commented both on Facebook and on the colleges own feedback sight(As yet, not one person has supported the proposed change. I might add)
What I can say is. With an investment of just a fraction of the amount the college is proposing to spend turning the Holland club into a clone of all its other commercial outlets. The Holland club committee would be able to complete all of the improvements it has proposed in recent months. Plus a whole lot more.
The Holland club is at present, independently run by the staff, for the benefit of the staff and as a consequence of keeping prices to a minimum, will always struggle to get the capital required for major refurbishments. If the college wants to invest in the Holland club then I’m sure the committee would welcome the opportunity to make its own improvements. But not at the cost of its independence and its ability to carry on running the club in the best interests of the staff (members)
I have not experienced any issues with getting food from any of the existing cafeterias on South Kensington campus and I am sure that we do not need yet another outlet that sells roughly the same thing. How did college catering not meet demand in 2010-11? I buy lunch on campus every weekday and usually at peak hours in the SCR; I have never experienced a situation where I could not buy lunch.
I would like to point out that college already serves food from many locations on campus. The obvious ones are SCR, JCR, MDH (QTR), the Union and the Library. The Huxley building, Blackett, Royal School of Mines, Sir Alexander Fleming, EEE, The Business School and Eastside also serve food. If any improvements are to be made to college catering facilities, I would like to suggest that you first consider improving the existing ones rather than turning a unique space for postgraduates and staff into yet another mediocre sandwich stall.
Compared to the SCR and MDH, the rest of outlets have a pretty poor offering. You could first address this by bringing all your cafeterias to a similar standard. The cafeteria in Sir Alexander Fleming is also not bad. The ones found in Huxley and Blackett are terrible.
In my opinion, the Holland Club should be kept.
I would be hugely disappointed to see any change to the independence of the Holland Club or to its unique role in the college. What has reached saturation point is the identikit catering outlets and sterile shared facilities across the college. My guess is that most of the Holland Club regulars (who are a refreshingly wide spectrum of staff) wouldn’t consider anywhere else on campus, and its loss would make the college less communal and distinctive – a depressingly familiar trend for anyone who works here.
where else in the college can you/we have creative discussions with our group and/or colleagues and visitors before embarking on the London commute. Many valuable ideas have been born in the Holland club over an affordable pint. Imperial provides surely enough facilities for the undergraduate experience but does not seem to consider the postgraduate students and post-doc experience. Not everyone is keen to mingle with the UG’s in crowed noisy bars. Why should everything at Imperial be pressed into catering uniforms. Please, do leave the Holland Club where it is, as it is.
This plan by commercial services is misguided to say the least. And yes, the Holland Club floor space IS “comparable” to the floor space in the SCR, in that they can both be compared in terms of area (good work on the non-committal wording). However, when you carry out this comparison you will find that the Holland Club is significantly smaller.
We students don’t need more places to buy rubbishy sandwiches. College used to have little cafés in departmental buildings… including Claude’s (10p tea!), the lady who sold cheap cans of coke in the Chem Eng building and the café at the top of Huxley. The little café owners were priced out of their spaces by commercial services, presumably because they were harming the interests of the more expensive commercial services outlets. I’d suggest that commercial services review their strategy and perhaps look towards putting smaller, more affordable student eateries within departmental buildings (like in the good old days)… Just don’t wreck the Holland Bar for the sake of your pockets.
If the purpose of this activity is to determine whether replacing the Holland Club would improve the quality of the social spaces in college, I think that obtaining the opinions of people who had previously used Southside bar and have had a chance to see how Eastside compares might be a worthwhile step, being the closest analogue in recent times?
Additionally, in which way is the demand for catering services not being met? Insufficient quantities of food items? Insufficient seating places? Long queues at tills? Surely if the latter is the problem, then surrendering some seating space in existing establishments for more tills would be a far cheaper and faster means of solving this issue. If there is a lack of seating space, surely a “more aprropriate” provision of common room space on campus would not be one centralised facility, but multiple facilities close to where people actually work i.e. in their departments. Walking halfway across campus twice a day to have a tea with people who work in the office nextdoor is not convenient or appropriate compared to going somewhere within the same building for tea, but making a one-off return trip to buy a lunch before eating in the department you work in is much more reasonable.
Please, keep the Holland Club as it is!
It is a real asset to the College staff wellbeing!
There are three pubs currently on South Kensington Campus where drinks are provided. Apart from the Holland Club, other two are mostly used by undergraduate students (consider the terrible decoration of the East Side and uncomfortable Union Bar). There are massive scientific discussions and collaborations built up in Holland Club everyday between academic stuff and research students. Holland Club is one of the important reasons which make Imperial Imperial. To my opinion, it makes more effort to the scientific research in Imperial even than the physical library. Change it into a sandwich shop will not significantly improve the food experience on the campus. However, it will significantly reduce the opportunity of meeting up and charting between the academic stuff and research student as we all know the Queen’s Arms is overcrowded and not able to provide services to one of the biggest academic group in the world.
Just a thought, but it sounds like no-one likes the college food much anyway so perhaps we all ought to stop using the catering facilities on campus then they wouldn’t be saturated ! Keep the Holland Club.
Southside, the Union and the Holland club all used to be professionally staffed by students. As time has gone on, these facilities have become more expensive and have moved over to paid non-student staff who turnover far too quickly to get to become part of the academic ethos of the place. I liked knowing my barman in the Holland, and in Southside! And they could pul a decent pint!
As the number of catering outlets have proliferated the only thing that seems to get bigger are the prices and the size of the commercial services empire: running a second rate catering business is not part of the mission of the institution! For instance, why was a chunk of the library converted into a catering outlet? What academic mission does this serve? If these are to be run at commercial prices, why are they not outsourced to large multiple chains that can secure decent costs, along with the management? Why are we expending management effort on these non-core activities?
The SCR used to be staff only. Now, staff are largely excluded because its an inhospitable environment. One used to be able to take a research group over to Southside; now its an inhospitable, loud, neon-lit noisy bar. I used to quite like the Union bar; now its too noisy to talk. The Holland is the only place left; if it goes, where am I supposed to take my research group or go for a beer with our technicians? The only places left would be the Queens Arms or the Builders Arms. And they are too expensive. So we’ll lose social interaction of staff in the university, which given commuting distances for most staff, is already hard enough to achieve.
Seriously: if you keep trying to convert more of my salary into a jobs-for-the-boys scheme in Commercial services, eventually you’ll kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Yes, the Holland Club has been neglected and run down for a long time – by Imperial. The solution isn’t to remove it and make yet another overpriced commercial services outlet.
could the Holland Club not stay as it is for staff and postgraduate students but widen it’s current services?
i.e. open earlier for and serve lunch to all, and then in the evening retain it’s current purpose for staff and postgraduates only?
I think it would be a great loss to lose the Holland Club altogether as a space for staff and postgraduates to gather and socialise.
Holland Club has been our inofficial meeting point for 5 years. It is where staff and research students can go together and feel equal for once. It is a pleasant type of group meeting and we have more often come into more fruitful discussions in there than in the official meeting rooms where no one seems to dare to open their mouth. Why close down such a place? A happy worker is a good worker. Simples!
The Holland Club is a great place to meet colleagues socially after work (and occasionally over a sandwich at lunchtime) without being swamped by Undergraduates. Could you not consider using the space that used to occupied by NatWest bank for a new catering outlet and leave the Holland Club as it is?
I am concerned that this could very easily turn into another Eastside, which although nice I am not quite sure what it’s trying to be – bar, restaurant or meeting place?
Please keep the Holland Club running as it is but officially allow PG’s and academic staff in (as they have been coming in there for years!). It would be a great loss to the College community if this was to close.
To whom it may concern,
Regardless to the current economic context and to the so-called saturation point met by the catering on the Imperial College (which is the subject of different debate centered on the well-being on a campus), I would like to stress few points in favor of the Holland club in its current existence:
1) Imperial College has been praised in the recent years for being a top leading university in the education world. The quality of its teaching depends greatly on the efforts provided by its staff, both academic and non-academic. This leadership position has been echoed lately in the press by qualifying the college for being one with the best working environment. And I couldn’t agree more!
Well, here is an undeniable fact : A good working environment reflects the ability of the employer to meet the needs of its employees. One of the most striking need is to allow its devoted staff (just as a reminder, we still do work on the basis of peer-reviewed performance and not for bonuses) to unwind after work hours in a place where people can meet peacefully around a drink. The Holland club in its current form and management provide such environment. You can ask the regular customers (and they are many of them, surpassing the 600 actual likes on facebook): it is a place where you can meet colleagues and friends, but not only! This place offers a great opportunity to NETWORK and integrate smoothly. Many collaborations, brainstorms, and decisions have sparked at the Holland Club.
2) The College has the amazing ability to gather people from different horizons and nationality under the banners of Science. While working in a team gives you the feeling to belong to a group of 10 people, the Holland Club establishes and unifies a COMMUNITY. Such community is quite rare in the academic London. I have met most of my actual friends at this pub. I hope the College would appreciate the irreplaceable added value of this community.
3) Focusing on the actual aims raised by the Catering, I really don’t think the Holland club is adequate for the proposed purpose. Installing an impersonal catering outlet in a building basement and pretending that it is aimed to improve the well-being of paying students is rather cynical and irrational. Everybody knows that your actual facilities are overpriced for the quality they provide (as a reminder: A double espresso at Starbucks still cost 15p less than the one offered by your services, your sandwiches are still reflecting the poor pre-Thatcher savoir-faire, and despite your efforts to involve your customers into fair trade consumerism, you are charging them 50p for a banana!). So, If you allow me, I would suggest to re-think your association of catering with well-being. Focusing on the improvement of your existing facilities should be challenging enough (i.e, the ghostly Queen’s tower room, the JCR, the SAF cafeteria).
The Holland Club has 60 years of history. You can’t replace history with a 24 hour supply of dreadful food. And if you aim to, well, enough is said.
Regards
The Holland Club is the only place on Campus where it is possible to take your research group and have a decent conversation and a drink in reasonable surroundings without being interrupted by undergraduates or loud music. The other bars on Campus are dreadful in this regard. The success of the Holland Club and need are demonstrated clearly by how popular it is. It would be an enormous mistake to remove this facility. I strongly urge you to leave it alone.
After reading of the imminent threat to the long-established Holland Club (Feilx, issue 1506), I wonder, with 15 cafes, 2 restaurants and a number of shops already on South Ken campus, would it not be wiser, rather than spending the proposed 4 million redeveloping/ruining important cultural/traditional facilities, to simply better manage the existing outlets.
For instance, the Queens Tower Room is always under used, apart from an hour a day when it is properly utilised (not overcrowded). The SCR is extremely poorly managed over lunchtimes (packed lunches/students studying, UG’s proliferating, etc) and hardly used at all other times (as I have no option but to take lunch at these times, I now go at 12 in order to guarantee a seat). The JCR is overcrowded for an hour a day, otherwise empty; ……well, this list could go on and on. I’m sure your experiences of college facilities is similar to mine.
The truth is, there are more than adequate facilities on campus already but they are very poorly managed. The first feasibility study should not have the remit “where can we grab more space to get us off the hook for our poor management?” it should be “how can we better manage our existing facilities so that we don’t have to block an important cultural artery?”
Here’s a question or two that may assist:
Is it absolutely necessary to have everyone on campus taking their lunch break between 12- 1.30? I realise some cannot avoid this but I am sure the majority could if it were possible? Bunch/Lunch/Late Lunch, perhaps.
Can lectures be timed to ‘release’ users a little later/earlier? The college boasts 24/7 facilities, so use them 24/7.
The JCR, SCR and QTR can seat hundreds of people after hours but there are no staff to man the pumps – why not, it would be a far better use of that 4 million!
Can staff be allowed a more flexible lunch period? It wouldn’t take a massive shift in our habits for this to become a viable suggestion.
Can some of the departmental facilities be unlocked to non-department staff – for instance, is it necessary for the facility in the Tanaka building to be ‘locked down’ to non-department staff? I have yet to see this cafe anywhere near full.
Is the ugly, airport-hanger Tanaka building entrance really a good use of space or is it intentionally sparse and gloomy to deter tourists?
Are we being told the truth, that this study is hoping to enhance the ‘student experience’ or is it simply a land grab for a corporate bookings facility……..profit, profit, profit and all in college lose.
The Holland Club is very important to the campus community but this may not show positively on a spreadsheet; does anything of worth ever show well on a spreadsheet? I think not. The idea that the ‘student experience’ will be enhanced by turning this into another neon hell-hole is risible in the extreme.
For God’s sake, stop turning the campus into a Westfield/Bluewater Lite.
The solution to the ever-so-slightly-hyped problem of not enough facilities is better management of those facilities or the managers of these facilities should be ‘encouraged’ to seek employment elsewhere!
Dear Sir/Madam
Firstly, thank you for the opportunity to provide some feedback. I felt it necessary to address some of the points raised in the opening feasibility statement first, before commenting on what the Holland Club means to me personally, and what it quite evidently means to other members of the College.
You said: “In 2010-11, the College provided catering services to a footfall of 2.5 million and was still unable to meet demand”
Since a lot of College catering establishments already seem to be run as commercial concerns (which in today’s economic climate is rightly understandable), what percentage of the 2.5 million ‘saturation point’ involved catering more for the general public and to the obvious detriment of the College’s staff and students? Something that the PRB quite readily admit is, and I quote, “a growing concern over our ability to deliver a good experience on campus for all staff and students”. Staff and students must come first.
You said: “Feasibility study reviewing space on Level 0 Sherfield Building *including* Holland Club. Feasibility study reviewing space on Level 0 Sherfield Building including Holland Club” (my emphasis on ‘including’)
Without the plans to hand, I suspect this is probably, and only comparable, when you add the space used by the Holland Club ‘AND’ the remaining unused floor space of level 0, i.e. the areas that the Holland Club currently does not occupy.
You said: “Whether any new facilities should be open to all members of the community or to just a segment”
Which community? The staff and student community of the College or the whole of South Kensington/general public community?
You said: “How the ethos of the Holland Club might be maintained within any new facilities”
This one is easy. Simply let the Holland Club remain an independent and self-governing social facility for the College’s staff and postgraduate community.
You said: “The Portfolio Review Board will review the results in Q2 2012 and determine next steps for the project”
With any luck, the PRB review will have had chance to read peoples comments expressing their anxieties surrounding the future of the Holland Club and look favourably when they make their decisions at this stage of the project process.
Peter F Brown
The Holland Club is the only place for Postgraduates and Staff, and should stay that way. We do not need anymore catering outlets….Its a good place to socialise, as it has been for many years, and would be greatly missed.
Leave our Holland Club alone……………….
As an ex-employee of Imperial College I was very upset to hear about plans to close/change the Holland club. The Holland Club played an important role in my ‘college experience’ and has always provided a warm, friendly place to go for a quiet pint after work. It is the sole facility remaining on the campus that retains some character or tradition and would be a great loss to the college community. During my phd the Holland club was a haven to go to after a hard day at work to relax and socialise with other phd students and was also a great place to meet the many support staff who do such an excellent job in keeping the college running. I have fond memories of countless viva celebrations and birthday drinks in the club. One of the main reasons for the clubs success is that the management is allowed to run the club for the benefit of its clientel without interference from the college. It is my experience that the college ‘management’ often have no idea what the staff and students of Imperial College really want and are solely interested in creating new revenue streams and are not in any way trying to improve the ‘college experience’. It would be a great shame to lose the Holland club to yet another generic catering outlet, of which there are many (MDH, JCR, SCR, SAF CAFE, LIBRARY CAFE) most of which are underused, presumably due to the quality of food on offer (soggy sandwiches and all very samey). When I go back to IC to visit old friends we always meet in the holland club and if it closes I would see no reason to go back to the campus. So please see sense and leave the Holland Club alone.
getting rid of the Holland Club is getting rid of a tradition that is well and truly enjoyed by academics and students alike. Besides, I wouldn’t want to purchase anything made by Imperial catering in an underground area! Keep Holland Club as it is, that at least would give us a piece of mind that Imperial is not 100% turning into a cold-hearted incorporation, instead of the humane intelligence-breeding grounds that it should be!
It is the only place on campus that staff can go in the lunchtime and guarantee to get a seat. Would be good if they did snack foods again at lunchtime.
Has been a great meeting place for staff for leaving do’s and social events in the evenings.
Will be very sad to see it go.
I do not understand why the Holland Club comes into this at all. The Holland Club is being used, people like it, in my day it was frequently busy so clearly servicing a demand. If the college needs more facilities (and I’m not in a position to say whether they do or don’t) then why are they not being considered as an addition to what currently exists rather than replacing it? There must be other space available within the college which could be converted if that’s actually what is needed.
You’ve invited staff to offer input here – does that mean that views of others will be disregarded? Also what steps are those involved in the “study” going to take to be transparent in their decision making process ensuring that the feedback invited here is taken into account?
I thought I would share my thoughts regarding the feasibility study. While it is a noble aim that the College should strive to “ high provide quality services” such as “catering outlets”, is not the case that this is already well severed via The Beit Quad, the Library Cafe, Eastside Bar, the JCR, the SCR, The Queens Tower Restaurant, the Business School Cafe, the Chemistry Cafe, the Electrical Engineering Cafe, Essential Convenience store, the Royal Schools of Mines Cafe ect (forgive me if I have left any out!), and that if Imperial is still unable to meet “demand” it should look to manage these outlets more efficiently.
Also with regards to not meeting catering demand, how is this assessed?, Have there been a series of complaints from students and staff about having to go home hungry because they were not able to purchase a latte and croissant, or have students been fainting in exams directly because of a lack of Fairtrade Soy Free Chocolate on sale? One may also be bold enough to suggest that while it is Imperial’s responsibility to feed the minds of students, it’s the student responsibility to feed themselves, after all if the students feel that are not well served by the catering options they will go elsewhere.
With regards the Holland Club, it all ready provides a social space in which Staff and PG students alike can meet, converse and interact in a social environmental, these areas in the College are few and far between. It would be a tragic loss to the community of Imperial College if the pursuit of pure commercial interests were to wash away such communal hub. It would be better to empower (both financially and practically) those who run the Holland Club establishment to improve and enhance the experience for Students and staff, as they are at the front line of customer service and are better attuned to understand their customers’ needs.
The Holland Club is run independently for its members i.e. the staff and post graduates of Imperial College. Rather uniquely it provides for the needs of its customers, who use the facilities first. Being independent, the Club is driven by the needs of its clientele who appreciate the locale and ambience created as a stress free environment to relax, have a reasonably priced pint and chat away troubles and genuinely have a laugh. Socially if you ever use the venue, look around and you will see the complete mixed bag of Imperial College Post Grad & Staff chilling out and enjoying themselves, after trying their best throughout the day at whatever they do. This is the Ethos of the Holland Club, change that and all you have left is an emotional vacuum created by another McDonalds, looking for revenue opportunities in a high turnover, get them out, get them in culture, rather than a genuine pleasing experience. Save the Holland Club
Dear Sir/Madam,
I unreservedly oppose the planned closure of the Holland Club. As an alumnus and ex-employee of Imperial College (2001-2011), I would like to express that the Holland Club represents both character, tradition and down-to-earth friendliness. These are the qualities Imperial College must cherish and preserve, not replace nor destroy.
Ka-Kei Ho
Please do not take the Holland Club away. With the loss of the Southside Bar it is the only ‘pub’ venue on Campus for Staff and Students to mix in a relaxed atmosphere. We do not need anymore cafes.
The Holland Club is a tradition and should be maintained.
The only way to improve the use of that space is to allow the Holland club make its improvements it had planned, or to somehow increase it’s space as it’s always so busy. It provides a much needed area for staff and PG students in the evenings and can not be compared to the SCR as they are open and provide very different services. If anything the Holland club could be open more, maybe open at lunch times with some light pub food but still for the same people, Staff and PGs. There are not many places on campus for staff without UGs and seeing as this is their place of work they need to be catered to as well, not just the UGs all the time. We go down and visit the Holland club frequently and enjoy the atmosphere, the prices are great and it is run very well. It has great character and it would be a massive detriment for it to be changed. Just like when the southside bar closed down, it’s replacement in eastside is too clinical and character-less and is much less popular as a result.
It sounds like college is more keen to impress foreign olympic teams who won;t even notice the difference, than to keep a much loved and I would say vital service to its own staff!!
I think the Holland Bar should stay as it is – it has always provided a nice, secluded area, away from all the undergrads (who have free roam everywhere else) that is affordable and comfortable. There are so many catering facilities on site already (and all provide pretty much the same service!) why do they need yet another!? They should be looking to provide just ONE on the St Marys campus, let alone yet another at SK! Surely the HC makes enough money to be sustainable? And why should the undergards get their own ‘common room’ and not the grads and staff?
KEEP THE HOLLAND CLUB!
As one of the few, privileged undergraduates who use the Holland Club after Orchestral rehearsals, this news came as a real blow. The HC is one of the few facilities on campus that has any character at all. The relaxed and friendly atmosphere coupled with honest, good value is exactly what its clientele are looking for. I’m not saying that my friends and I don’t appreciate the strange, purple hue of Eastside, or the guarantee of finding a seat in the MDH, but the Holland Club has always been the perfect location for a quiet drink and a catch-up. If it were to go, I feel the chances of the Orchestras staying on campus for a drink would be incredibly slim. We would much rather venture to the Hoop and Toy. The feeling that Imperial is being run as a business with little or no regard to the wishes of its staff or students is exactly why it scored so poorly in the student satisfaction survey and the response to this, its latest proposal, should be cause for some thought.
Imperial College (rightly) strives to be the best University it can be. A large part of this is reputation and tradition. The Holland Bar is reminiscent of real bar which in the surrounding vicinity is impossible to come by. As is exemplified by the very name of the club, this facility aims to be associated with the tradition of the College and is one of the more personal aspects postgraduates will remember. Put short, Imperial is relatively young as an independent University and while it may not seem like so on the surface, quite often the most interesting legacies of established institutions comes from the walls of informal places like the Holland club.
Secondly, Undergraduates are what drive any university establishment. However, Imperial maintain an impressive reputation for research, much of which is carried out by post-graduate and other research staff. While the union boasts impressive facilities, the Holland bar remains the sole social retreat for more senior students and staff.
Finally, I think the uniqueness of the Holland Club is perfectly exemplified by the cliental that frequent it. On a daily basis you’ll see PhD students straight from the lab interacting and enjoying the company of professors, technicians, security guards, administrative staff and people from all facets of the College’s workforce. Surely this is the sort of inclusive environment Imperial should be proud of and the fact such a diverse array of Imperial’s members attend it is proof enough of its importance at it caters specifically for all these groups brilliantly..
The Holland Club got me through my PhD and provides a conveniently located, competitively priced venue where staff and students can unwind. It is frequently busy and is clearly meeting the demands of college staff and students.
Punishing it for its success does come across as being remarkably petty.
I believe it would be a great loss to Imperial if the Holland Club would be turned into any other catering facility. The Holland club is used greatly by administration staff for social meeting for various sections within the college. It’s used as a pay day celebration meeting. The Holland Club is also the normal place to meet for leaving drinks. It’s a convenient relaxed place for staff to unwind, offering affordable drinks.
The Holland Club could be improved with a makeover to brighten the place up, and once again offering light bar snacks
Will you make it open so everyone can see the comments, good or bad.
It is with great sadness that I received the news that the Holland Club is being considered to be closed down. Since my arrival as an overseas Masters Student to Imperial College I have been going to the Holland Club regularly. I think it provides postgraduate students with a facility only for them to enjoy a drink in a relaxing pub atmosphere.
Should the Holland Club also close as a bar this would leave absolutely no suitable venues on the main campus for only postgrads to meet up, and that would seem to be very sad. It is not pleasant to go to the Union Bar if you want to have a nice conversation, it is filled with noisy undergrads, the ambiance is more club-cafeteria than that of a traditional English pub.
I believe Imperial College has enough catering facilities already and there is no need to open another one. Furthermore, I don´t think the space of the Holland Club will be appropriate for a restaurant. It is dark and underground, perfect for a drink, but not for lunch!
Finally I would like to add that the Holland Club is where I meet my future husband and father of my child, so it is a place with deep emotional significance for me. I would assure you that a majority of the postgrads of Imperial have many other personal stories to tell about this special place.
There are several catering facilities around campus that, due to the limited opening hours and services provided are clearly underused. This probably accounts for the described “saturation point” being reached and demand not being met. A few examples of underused spaces come to mind such as the Queen Tower Restaurant, the Chemistry café, Electrical Engineering Safe and even the SCR café limited opening hours, to name only the examples I’m more familiar with. Improving the services these catering outlets provide, as well as extending the opening/serving hours, particularly outside term times, will surely do more to enhance the experience of students and staff across Campus.
The emphasis of the proposals appears to be on opening new facilities rather than fully utilizing existing College catering outlets and this should be investigated before considering spending money on new unwanted facilities
The only way to maintain the ethos of the Holland Club is to leave it as a self-governing facility for staff and postgraduates. I would prefer the college to provide the existing club with funds to upgrade existing bar and meeting room facilities and also to extend catering provision, as it would enhance the great experience already provided but this unique space around College. Like many other Holland Club users, there are particular reasons that bring me there and one of the most important ones is the fact that it provides a socialising space specific for our needs and requirements. Another generalised cafe-type facility can not provide this same unique and valued experience and I would not be a user of such a new catering outlet.
Please assist the Holland Club and ICU to upgrade their facilities but allow them to retain their unique identities. Staff and students need their own social spaces tailored to the requirements of their own community and not dictated by the College. The staff and postgraduate students are happy users of the services and atmosphere provided only in the Holland Club and require this space to retain its identity and status.
Dear Sir/ Madam,
As a regular visitor to the Holland Club I am extremely disappointed to see that the College is considering closing it down to make room for additional catering facilities for all members. The Holland Club serves as a good place for intellectual discussion after working hours. It is a bar that staff can bring academic guests to, which does not have an undegraduate atmosphere.
The Holland Club has been around for more 50 years and is a part of the postgraduate experience. In my opinion, closing down the Holland Club would be equivalent to closing down the Union bar that is predominantly used by undergraduates.
I hope these comments will be considered carefully before any decision is made.
Yours sincerely,
Koonyang Lee
Comparing the size of the Holland Club to that of the SCR without quoting actual ratios smacks of using FUD to slant the case to get rid of it by giving what, on the face of it, is a totally misleading impression.
The SCR catering layout is clearly flawed – the tables used for dining are far too wide and deep for convenient conversation at the high background noise level when seated two per table. Neither that much width nor depth is required per diner, and we never have any problem accommodating four lunchers either side of three clustered tables normally seating 3 per side, although finding an extra chair can be inconvenient. There is clearly a bigger capacity in the kitchens and at the tills than there is for seating under the present arrangements.
Since most people dine off trays then a width of a tray plus ample elbow room is what is required. just over that , and the capacity could doubtless be increased by around 33% with a suitable change of tables.
The SCR till system could also be improved dramatically. The easy improvement would be to equip the tills with a proximity college ID card reader so that the cashier only has to handle cash, and the swiping of the card could be done by the diner. If the cashier having sight of the photo on the card is concern then this could be digitised and made available on a small screen to the cashier, but it does not seem like a big issue since SCR members can take guests anyway if desired.
The better solution would be to provide cash facilities on the college ID card with a chip on the card, and the ability for students to load up the cards themselves with cash or auto-top up similar to Oyster cards. Some security issues might have to be addressed, and it may be that this system should be restricted to PhD students and staff. However, this would make paying for lunch much quicker, relieving queues at the tills, and allowing the additional seats which would be released by suitable-sized tables to be fully used. I cannot comment on kitchen capacity, but the provision of the most popular meal at a second counter alongside the least-favoured option would reduce queuing.
Another source of SCR queuing is getting cutlery and serviettes, as there is only only trolley with these, whereas the coffee machines sit mainly idle at lunchtime.
So there is clearly much that should have been done with the SCR arrangements before catering start to covet the Holland Club.
Having said this, the Holland Club is used only after hours, and could provide additional facilities during the day, such as coffee and sit-down areas in the same space without prejudicing the social atmosphere in the evening of the Holland Club.
Peter
The Holland Club is the main after-hours social hub of the postgraduate community, it is a place where I, and many, have made and cemented our college friendships. It maintains this status by simply providing a cosy pub atmosphere, cheap drinks and a sanctuary for postgraduates and staff to celebrate or commiserate at the end of a day’s work – this is the very ethos you speak of that must not be changed. I have never heard another postgraduate complain that the college provides a lack of accessible catering solutions (SCR, JCR, SAF, The Union, Eastside, Library Cafe – is six options not enough?! That’s without mentioning the cafe in my chemistry building!), in fact the only complaint I hear is that what these numerous outlets provide is so samey. What my colleagues and I dread most is the Holland Club being renovated into a clinical neon nightmare like Eastside, a facility that whilst serving it’s purpose, represents nothing of the environment us postgrads want as our primary common facility. I can guarantee an unwanted change like that would ruin the ethos and hence fracture the postgraduate community irrevocably. I’m not saying there aren’t detractors of the Holland Club, but having spoken to them I believe the majority would have their minds changed by just four things – a revamp of the dingy entrance area, a change of the layout to maximise space for seating and standing, improved air conditioning for those stuffier busy nights, and an updated bar that could provide some sandwiches as well as snacks (yes, a little food provision would be nice, especially if you’re planning a full evening in the club, but a full catering outlet is an unwanted money-spinner that would alter the club’s atmosphere for the worse). These alterations would be welcomed, and would surely come in at a fraction of the price of a complete change to the facility. And as a final point, please leave the snooker tables alone, I doubt they spin a profit or “maximise space potential”, but plenty of us love the perk of having them there, would it really be necessary to change that?
The Holland Club is a much loved and frequented Imperial College institution that allows staff and postgraduate students to unwind in a way that no college-catered facility can. Its self-governing nature allows it to tailor itself directly to our needs, allowing it to support our wellbeing in a way that is unique on campus.
In my opinion, and in the opinion of all colleagues I spoke to, the space occupied by the Holland Club is currently being used far more effectively than it would be if it were replaced with yet another catering outlet.
I vehemently do not want the holland club to close. I do not need, want, and would not use whatever catering facility would replace it.
I am very disappointed to hear the proposal to close the Holland Bar. This is one of very few benefits left for staff, who work very hard to ensure a good student experience, we at least deserve something. It’s’ a good place to meet socially with colleagues who are spread accross campus too.
I think they should be looking at other places, and surely when the new building is ready, people will be moving over there anyway, lessening the demand.
What about the catering facility under the senior common room at ground level, there never looks open, and when it is, it never looks that busy, so maybe you should be looking at improving that space.
If they want to take all the good spirit away, then this is sure way of doing it.
The only way to maintain the ethos of the Holland Club is to leave it as a self-governing facility for staff and postgraduates. I would prefer the college to provide the existing club with funds to upgrade existing bar and meeting room facilities and also to extend catering provision.
The emphasis of the proposals appears to be on opening newfacilities rather than fully utilizing existing College catering outlets and this should be investigated before considering spending money on new unwanted facilities.
Like many other Holland Club users, I would not use a standard catering facility. Please assist the Holland Club and ICU to upgrade their facilities but allow them to retain their unique identities. Staff and students need their own social spaces tailored to the requirements of their own community and not dictated by the College
It would be a truly great shame to lose the Holland Club or indeed to impose any significant changes. A part of what makes it such a popular space for so many postgrads and staff members is that it offers an alternative to the sterile and characterless ‘catering outlets’ that seem to have taken over the rest of the college. There really needs to remain a CHOICE for staff and postgraduates. Firstly, having a proper bar, where lecturers can have a drink without being surrounded by the students they teach all day (and vice versa), and where the sports clubs etc are not singing songs and playing drinking games (the Union is fine for that) is incredibly important, although I understand and hope that this is not disputed. Secondly, the atmosphere is very different from, for example Eastside, the main bar in the Union, the SCR etc., and this is the important point. All of these places get refurbished and refitted so regularly that they lose any sense of character or charm and become merely functional spaces. The Union Bar is a notable exception, although anyone who has been in there on a Wednesday or Friday night will know that it is not the place to go for a quiet glass of beer after work. It is also interesting to note how popular the Union Bar remains with the undergraduate population, which is a direct product of the atmosphere that has been allowed to develop there over so many years as a result of no whole sale changes being imposed. The great thing about the Holland Club, and what means that people keep going back, is that it stays the same, it is reliable and it is familiar. Please don’t take it away, there is nowhere else left.
Many thanks
I think that the Holland Club should remain as a post graduate and staff bar and requires no improvement to the facilities what so ever. The Holland Club has been a great place to socialise for post graduates and staff for many years and I believe it should remain. I do not think it necessary that this space is turned into a catering facility as there are enough college catering outlets around college already, but only one post graduate and staff only bar.
“On the South Kensington Campus, these have reached saturation point.”
What? The MDH iis used two hours a day 30 weeks a year. That doesn’t sound very saturated to me.
Absolutely appalling. The last thing we want is yet another garish cafe selling expensive, watery coffee, short-dated petrol station sandwiches and stale, soggy baguettes.
Keep the Holland Club as it is, independently run and well away from college catering.